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Got a craving for a general forum? Chat away on general typography here!
Also, don't forget about all the other forums.
I just "challenged" myself to rate the newest 10 fonts on the Gallery after reading this.
Sometimes I think FS has gotten too deep, you know? All these fierce discussions about trolls & whatnot has slightly dampened the effect of this wonderful program. Don't get me wrong, I love it. But I ask myself: does rating and being in whatever place on the top picks really matter?
I think this reflects human society in general. There's always a kind of primitive (even if absurd) need of leaders. The myth of a "natural" leader left its place to an "artificial" one which is built by a system full of tricks and cheating and unfairness, in order that some smart people keep conserving their obscene priviledges or to new ones, even smarter, or more pervert than the precedent which will establish the new form to be obscenely priviledged in exactly the same way than the precedent ones. Being honest with your own skills does not lead anywhere in todays human society. It is the way HOW it is put in light and how it can use the obscenity of the "system" that gives a small chance to simply exist. You must find the exact pervert way which will exactly fit. Candidness is absolutely not allowed. In the best case, some will try to use your skill and distort it to their own smart little power in this vast and complex and obscure society system. In the worst they will simply SMASH you down if you get the mad indecency to believe you could be recognized by the system just being what you are and not the preformatted "dull" model they have decided to be representing their own little power. The problem is that in our modern societies, those little powers are not coming by physical persons with hearts,skins, bones and brains, but by the unpalpable and insidious artificial "flux" that took advantage on individuals.
@ demonix : Just some thoughts inspired by your comment above.
I don't mind the ratings too much myself, and I don't rate that often (I rather give comments). But I do appreciate the ratings I've gotten, and everyone's free to give their opinion, whether they think a font deserves a 1 or a 10 (but comments would be desirable). I like to say that no matter what you do, there are people who like it, and people who don't.
I read the link given by demonics, and it got me thinking - doesn't the balanced rating encourage people to give more extreme ratings?
@neurone Thanks for your input. Finally, people are using this forum.
As an example of how little I think ratings matter, I can honestly say that I haven't the slightest idea of how any of my fonts stand in the ratings.
I never give ratings without a comment ... that would be meaningless. My standard 10/10 is given in recognition of excellent work - or as encouragement, especially to new 'structors who have made an effort that I think should be recognised.
I have said it many times before, and will always believe, that the comments of my peers is of infinitely more value than the simple click on a rating.
My advice has always been - enjoy the act of designing for its own sake. The first person to satisfy should always be yourself. If you have done something that pleases others - then that is a bonus.
@p2pnut, @yautja Right.
Designer vs Artist:
- Designer is obsessed by Universality
- Artist is obsessed by Unique (even the most desillusionned postmodernists propose unique pieces on the market).
- Designer is obsessed by versatility on a maximum of contexts, or at least on a target with a large panel of consumers responding.
- Artist builds himself his own context, even if he may take the real world as starting point, even if he takes it literally, the destination is completely different. The piece he creates is a world, a context within itself which does not need necessary to take part on the "real" world while it is a crucial part of the the designer approach.
- Apart from some very few VIP artists who earn obscene amounts of money because they , or some smart people around them succeeded convincing some very rich people that their work was their taste and that they could speculate on this, generally artists are much poorer than designers, because design is considered as a "real" job by society.
- Designer is obsessed by functionality in the already existing modalities of the world. So many traditional rules can blind creativity.
- Artist is also obsessed by functionality, but "within" the limits of the Beta world he is elaborating. This Beta world could seem unfunctional regarding the usual standards, but perfectly, and precisely functioning in its own context.
- Deigner is aiming to make evolve or at least to be the everyday life best companion of people.
- Artist is not interested by everyday life, if he is, it's to push it to different level or angle. It's only materia, not the end of the process, as it is for the designer.
And to finish, a little joke, sorry in advance : Designers have much more chances to get top picked than Artists at Fontstruct.com !
Still, it's a good job that we are big enough to welcome and embrace everyone .... isn't it?
@p2p Yes, at least we try.
@neurone Good comparison.
@everyone This is a must-see.
LAIKA is a new dynamicfont. This is a genius idea, but it may put us all out of font-related work :)
If you don't want to click on the link, I'll tell you what LAIKA is: It's a font of which you can control the weight, serif size, contrast, slant, and more right from your computer. It can look like Arial or Rockwell, Bodoni or Clarendon! Please click on the link; it's mind-blowing.
"Type has always been something static.
"In considering type we speak, for example, in terms of bold, thin, grotesque, classical, roman, italic: terms that all describe a defined variant of the font family. Thus we only ever see individual fixed points in what is actually an infinitely wide space of possibilities.
"With digitalisation, however, typeface has left its manifest image – cast in lead – behind, and with it all the associated limitations. Computer-based applications, the Internet and new, fluid advertising media allow us to go beyond the existing, static view of typography.
"LAIKA is neither bold nor thin, but swings between these two extremes. Its form is no longer defined statically, but alters dynamically. As well as the font’s weight, the stroke contrast, serif lengths and italic angles of the font all behave dynamically too. All these parameters can be driven and influenced by a range of inputs, in order to create a typeface that changes constantly in real time.
"LAIKA requires a whole new, dynamic understanding of typography.
"Why should a typeface be rigidly set, if it is not going to be printed? In a dynamic medium, why shouldn’t the form and the character of the typeface be understood dynamically as well? Why shouldn’t its forms change, transform, and respond to circumstances?
"Prototypical applications show their potential in combination with interactive, audiovisual inputs, data requested from the Internet in real-time (RSS feeds), and electronic components such as sensors or simple switches. In this way, an advertising text could react to passers-by, stock market prices could influence a corporate typeface, or ECG measurements taken while writing could breathe new emotional life into digital love letters.
"With LAIKA, there is finally a font that can seamlessly use the whole spectrum of its cuts. A font that is able to move between its extremes in real time. An interactive font that is able to respond to its surroundings. A font that questions deadlocked dogmas and throws up completely new design questions, and thus has the potential to revolutionise the understanding of digital typography."
from the LAIKA website
Finally, one more link:
The LAIKA video on Vimeo.
It seems to be some sort of Wii console game applied on Typo. Why not? Simply a gadget to me. And the "font" used is desperately boring.
@neurone No, click on the link in my first comment. You can play with it yourself.
Everyone, please do look at the links. They are worth it.
@Yautja It's revolutionary!
It made me think if it would be possible to make fonts by mathematic calculations, so that you would just write commands for the font's characteristics, and then you could easily make different weights etc.
Ah, but that would take all the fun out of designing fonts!
Yeah, I'm just a bit of a perfectionist myself so I like to do things with mathematic precision, which is why I like FS. But there are always some designs that are best made by hand.
I wonder if a machine could be programmed to create fonts like mine that are a new unique much undecidable but perfectly coherent coherent world each time. I doubt it. This (Laïka) only goes for obvious standards and i still dont get the "revolutionary" point of it, as you say, even after having seen the links.
The letterforms themselves aren't revolutionary. What's revolutionary is that you can essentially create fonts with a click of a mouse. And maybe they will make a program that uses more beautiful letters. The point is, right now it's not so much about how the letters look as it is that you can make entire font families by waving your mouse. I think it's a good concept that could be further developed.
I completely agree. FS is great at clean fonts but not so good at handmade ones.
We can agree that typography aimed to be legible and design-ish is not a form of art (I don't, but not at all though), but it's needed. It also can be boring and soulless, but we can't be intolerant about it, if there was no readibility there wouldn't be any books, newspapers, programming, even no mail, non-verbal communication between people and the Internet.
I classify myself both as an artist and as a designer. I really appreciate unique and visionary forms that are being illustrated in a form of an art, but also a perfection of a design is important to me. Perfection is there when you stand before an inaccuracy in a font, even if it contains 300 varieties. No matter it's shape, I mean it's thickness, amount of it's obliquity or size of the serifs. It needs to fit within your overall style of your design, so for more modern-looking everything else I'd (and many would) pick a sans serif font. A black or a bold type goes to a title, thin goes to the rest. But sometimes you need to be exact, especially when dealing with colors and single pixels, spacing, distances between sections and all. Sometimes you just can't decide.
So, LAIKA, in my opinion is a great tool with bright future. This tiny application seems to be a cool font generator for those who can't decide which fits better - black or extra black? Moreover, I think that tools like this should be implemented as features of software like Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, office applications and so on.
That's right, LAIKA isn't a font, it's more like a tool. Letters can be more beatiful or just different, shaped in another way, higher or wider. Computers can't create art by themselves. There is no doubt. They don't have any soul, they're only tools that help people doing their tasks faster and easier. They don't think, those who think are their users. Letters have their own shapes and they need to be created by a human being. I can agree that "boring" typefaces that we meet all the time (like Arial, Helvetica, Futura, Avant Garde, Times, Garamond) are somehow "standardized" and it's possible for a computer to randomly generate for example the R's "cane", it can make it straight or rounded, but infinite beauty of an art can be crafted only by a human. The base shape of the font used in LAIKA was created by someone, it wasn't generated. SOOOO... why not to put an option to design it by self, for example by creating the base shape with... Bezier curves? They could also add a slider for adjusting the amount of distortion (in many ways to choose), of rounding, of height, of width, of rounding between sheriffs and the letters or of WHATEVER. Programming is also a kind of art, there are infinite possibilities ;).
The creators say that LAIKA is a full-fledged typeface for dynamic media like computer displays or smartphones. The only difference is that it can move and change in realtime. Cool. Much less "boring". In my opinion it's just a tool, but let them have their own vision. I think that fonts like LAIKA shouldn't be used frequently on websites for two reasons: I have an EXTREMELY poor computer (1,6 GHz, single-core Sempron, COME ON!!!) and it just won't work for me and many others. The second reason is that, as I said before, it works better as a tool for creating still types for still designs. Let it shine on banners, logotypes, but not as a common text. In future - maybe it's range of usability will expand.
nice application by yannick mathey
One cannot forget the Meek•FM. Art meets Design meets Technology meets...SOUND! Watch these videos.
In the context of this conversation, Rob’s project has a lot to say about where all these disciplines meet. The links above (especially the videos) establishes beyond a shadow of a doubt how Rob Meek has a far more experimental, boundary-pushing, even revolutionary aesthetic than is often acknowledged here.
@neoqueto I agree.
@will.i.om Nice to see you on this forum!
@will.i.ૐ definitely! I've seen that before, I love synths and would love to try that.
@will.i.ૐ + @regular_one
Excellent, both of you.
I need some input. I am thinking about doing a forum font-of-the-week-type of thing, and I was wondering:
Should I get people's input and let the FS community choose a font every week for this forum to showcase, or
Since that might be too much like the Top Pick system, should I just choose a non-FS font and showcase it every week?
Another idea is to have type battles like on typophile.com. We could hold contests! I do think the annual FS contest doesn't happen enough.
Let me know what you think!
@demonix: There are different sensibilities here. The eventual font of the week being different for each. This couldn't work without seeming unfair for many. For instance, for me the font of the week is with no doubt "Drysfa gwallgolf" by Qimplef, but i barely think that this choice could be shared by many! Type Battles... why not? but i think it should be only for the pleasure of working together on the same theme, without any contest or judgement spirit, decause we would get the same discrimination problem then.
@abneurone I absolutely agree. Type battles it is, then.
@abneurone + everyone //
@demonix: I'm with neurone for the ideas.
It seems you have to make a single site if you want to make a forum font-of-the-week-type of thing or to have type battles like on typophile.com with contests.
Well, there's already Top Pick, and like Abneurone said, some people might not agree with the font chosen for the week.
@demonix : even if we often react negatively to your propositions, i appreciate your efforts to bring a bit more life in this site at a period when it has so much decreased in passion compared to 2 years and a half ago when i signed up. And i know how hard it can be, having myself tried some things like the Weird Pick i proposed to attribute to the most innovative extreme, bizarre, out of norm works generally ignored by top picks, even more at this time when Meek top picked quasi exclusively blackletters and bad helvetica copies, what made me mad, it has a bit changed now, maybe the weird pick was not completely in vain, and 2 weird picks becamed top picks too), but it failed and i received comments of pure hate, a guy had even made the efforts to post samples with images of excrements, you see the level...
I agree that font of the week may not work, but type battles sound better. There have been contests and collaborations before, we could have more of those!
@AFT on the bright side, at least there doesn't seem to be as many trolls now. For the year I've been here, this has been an awesome community.
Collaboration sounds good. I've seen some great examples on FS that were done a good while ago.
I've just set a reminder on my iPhone to “Start type battles” :)
Every two weeks sound good to you guys?
Also I'd just like to point out that I love how far this forum has evolved: we're starting not to use the @username tool to direct comments to one person. Instead, we really are having a group discussion, even though there are only 5-6 of us! I find it great.
On another note:
I think type battles could be successful. So any thoughts on what an FS type battle would look like? Getting people to collaborate on logo design? A font challenge like the official FS contest? Contests? No contests? What should the rules be?
Let me know, and I'll hopefully get started this weekend! Thanks guys.
PS abneurone, thank you for recognising my work. It did seem like My ideas were instantly rejected sometimes.
An idea : what about a remixing party ? And try to propose many different derivations from a same basis ?
@Yautja : Ha Ha! Someone just rated 1/10 this forum, just after you said there were less trolls.
I just noticed that too, heh. I like the remix idea, I don't really have other ideas now. BTW maybe this should be in the suggestions thread, but I guess it doesn't matter much.
I'm up for type battles! But how would it work? On typophile they upload sample images, but I suppose our object is the font itself (with or without additional sample images). In my mind that means the rules would be a bit different, and therefore maybe we should find a different name for it. Maybe a play on words would be in the FontStruct spirit: "FontPetition", "FontOut", "FontStruggle" (my personal favourite) or even "FontFeud" :P
Here is a sketch of some rules (input is very welcome):
1) All FontStruct users may participate in a FontStruggle, and can do so with as many entries as they like.
2) An entry in a FontStruggle is a public font on FontStruct, with or without accompanying sample pictures in the comments. (I don't think we should put limits on the licence)
3) The font should be tagged with "FontStruggle#" where '#' stands in for the specific number of the FontStruggle.
4) Each week/month (month seems more managable, at least in the beginning) a FontStruggle will be announced (how? in a font? by whom?) and participants can publish fonts all week/month and at the end (a quite specific time, midnight UTC?) a winner will be announced (democratically? using favourites? partly judged? by whom?).
I think it's a great initiative to get some social activity here! I've been lacking inspiration lately.
Yeah, two weeks may be better than a full month ;)
@Abneurone: Yes. FontStruct is already very good for remixing. One user could make a basic font, and others could clone it and work on it. The next ones could clone from the first one again, or from one of the derived fonts. And with the clone function one can always go back and see where each font came from :D
We are so creative.
Okay. CMunk, other FSors have said that they don't want a competition. I say that we can have a competition but I don't think a winner should be announced.
I like your rules though. I also like the name FontOut!
Guys, let's just ignore the trolls, ok? They just want attention which is what we're giving them. So let's not pay attention to 1/10 raters.
Can someone elaborate on this remixing idea?
One more thing: I think forum (me) should post a forum dedicated to being the place where people upload their sample images for the competition.
I've slightly revised CMunk's rules, and we're ready to FontOut! This is not a final copy. I need input on what to fill the blanks with.
Welcome to the very first FontOut!
Rules & Guidelines:
1) All FontStruct users may participate in FontOut, and can do so with as many entries as they like.
2) An entry in a FontOut is a public font on FontStruct, with or without accompanying sample pictures in the comments. It can also be a picture. There are no limits on licence.
3) The font must be tagged with "FontOut#" where '#' stands in for the specific number of the FontOut.
4) Every two weeks, a FontOut will be announced and participants can publish fonts or images within that two-week time period.
Create a font that has ___ and ___. The font must include ___. Sample images must have ___.
Let's see what our FontStruct community can do!
So are we looking for a specific category/style to fill the blanks in? As in "blackletter" or "serif" or "techno"...? Or just something generic like "create a font that has a handmade quality" like the previous FS contest?
Something I'm working on in the style of will.i.om. X-height is 4. Any suggestions! Almost no real curves!
I wasn't sure of my ability to survive 48 hours without FontStruct!
Same here :) I was just working on a font when it froze and I couldn't save it, but fortunately not all was lost.
Finally they're free a from a kinda creepy works to move 1,877,491 glyphs from one computer to another...
Thanks Meek, was kind of worried would FS come back on again...
Thanks a million to Mr M and the team for all the hard work restoring the site.
@meek - I echo p2pnut's sentiments whole-heartedly: thank you again so much for this wonderful tool! That was a LONG 24 hours... ;^)
I can't imagine how difficult it must have been to move everything from one server to another. Thanks to the FS staff this wonderful website is back :)
I'm working on a font called Special Kerning. I got the idea from here.
Should I expand 126 into a font family?
Also, I'm not thinking of a normal family. I'm thinking of something more along the lines of Proportional (Sans serif, serif), Typewriter (monospace2), Monospaced (Serif). Instead of Bold, Bold Italic, Italic etc....
I have just stumbled across two sites that are illegally displaying my fonts, available for FREE DOWNLOAD. Even though they have been removed from public view on my personal account for some time.
The sites are http://www.fonts2u.com/ and http://www.fontineed.com/.
There are a number of other FONTSTRUCT fonts on each site.
I have contacted both of them stipulating that unless they are removed immediately further legal action will be pursued due to copyright infringement. So a warning to you all, when you make a font PRIVATE, it does not make it secure.
Thank you djnippa. That is indeed frightening. Thanks for contacting them.
@Demonics. They have removed all five fonts from their two websites. I can now get on with selling them. Although I think the damage has already been done!!
I have my own homepage!
Hey, recently I see funk_king is active again in MyFonts. And I think (I'm not sure) he's submitting his new fonts. "Kingdom", "Carousel", "Vibration", "Lyrical", "Keyboard", "Jelly Bean". Anyone ever seen them?
If no, it's his new fonts and he's ever working here not so long ago!
I had this weird FontStruct dream. I dream that my font "One-Brick" went from eight comments to eighty comments. I didn't look at 'em, though.
@cable: thans for news on FK.There are some i did not recognize but you know, he had published more than 700 fonts when he was there so i'm not sure this is new staff
Hi, not sure if this is for questions - but if so... I'm trying to learn how compositing works right now, and I'm kindof baffled.
Trial Case: I'm wondering if it's possible to create a composite using "blank" or "empty" bricks? For example. If I want to take this 22.5 degree angle that's flush against the left and make an 11.25 degree angle flush against the left,
1) can I select the 2 bricks w/ the shape and the 2 bricks to the right to create the smaller angle? (This is more a generic question - not just for this particular case, because I can see cases where I might want to do something similar, like taking the curved shape below to do similar composite curve.
2) Messing around I see I can do this using the horizontal brick size filter - I can get to where I can visually create the 11.25 degree angle as shown - but the created composite brick itself is a 45 degree angle. I've tried to copy the created 11.25 degree angle that I see to another fonstruct set open on another browser tab, but it still copies as a 45 degree angle. Am I going about this in the proper way to create the 11.25 degree angle brick? (again, similar question could apply to a composite of the curve shown below - this is more a generic "how" to question rather than specific).
3. Can you quickly make the inverse of a brick (an option to create an inverse making the dark areas clear and the clear areas dark)?
thanks in advance for any pointers if this has already been discussed somewhere else before. thanks
sorry- here was image that should've gone w/ previous post
1) Not quite sure what you mean.
2) Yes, this is possible.
3) As far as I know, you cannot make an inverse of a brick.
To make a 1:8 angle, I usually:
1) put a 1:2 angle on the grid
2) put 3 square bricks lined up on the right side of it
3) select the whole contraption with the arrow tool
4) hit Shift+G
5) hold down Shift while clicking on the newly created composite in My Bricks
6) erase the 3 unneeded rectangles.
@demonics - ahhh. I see how to do this now. appreciated.
Hi, had a question from any compositing experts out there. I'm trying to create a single block to reflect the intersection of two differing angles and am thinking I can't do it, but was wanting to see if anyone thought it could be done. see attached photo for reference - but I'd like to create a single brick that looks like the exploded area in red and have it fit in the overall font design as shown. Is it correct that this is not doable? thanks in advance,
I don't think that's possible.
@fartheststar - In your pic, the 45° angle gap on the right side (the white space between the outline) looks a tad wide. If you narrow that gap, your problem might disappear. By that I mean you might be able to make the composite you need:
Tutorial - 45 degree angles
@Goatmeal - thanks for link. I'll rethink using good ole sqrt(a^2+b^2) !
@fartheststar - There are many others here who are much, much better at compositing and/or stacking, but this is a passable work-around. The blue arrow shows the 30°/60° cheat, while the green arrow shows that the 45° white space is a little narrow as a result. The red arrow shows the two bricks needed to stack to get the tail of the Q (the little triangle is a composite).
It's difficult enough as it is to get the bricks to line up using only 45° angles, but when you start adding 30º and 60° to the mix -- not to mention the numerous angles permitted by FontStruct 2.0's compositing (22.5°, 11.25° and 15°) -- difficulty and design limitations rise quickly...
@Goatmeal - here's what I ended up doing. I changed the channel size based on your pythagorian theorem discussion and here's what I ended up with. The change ended up w/ a workable composite as shown below. Thanks so much for the discussion - it really did help me think about 45 degree slanted line width properly. I reworked the entire font based on it
All, had a question about preferred setup for a font that contains both forward and backwards letters. Do you prefer the backwards letters in the capitals or the lower case? I've currently put them in lower case, but didn't know if there was a preference/standard/default. Below is a sample of output with both forward backwards being referred to. thanks (sorry for graininess of image - I use powerpoint because it's easy)
@fartheststar - Your solution looks great! Glad to have helped. :^)
So are we going to keep having FontOuts, or what?
@truth14ful // I felt like everyone (including myself was losing interest. If you really want me to, I can keep doing them. It just seemed like AFT was basically the only one participating, and now that he's gone, I fear it will be a lost cause.
@demonics, It's OK, I was just wondering. By the way, what happened to AFT?
@truth14ful // I think he got mad because everyone was excluding/saying bad things about him.
I for one did not participate in any Fontout's because of Abneurone's irrational, irritating behaviour and comments. It's like you had to create a whole new set of rules, just to stop him going over board, and producing tons of really substandard work.
I'm with djnippa.
That said, any word on a new official FontStruct competition? Meek?
@aphoria // Weren't handmadecomp, sportscomp, etc. in the spring (April)?
@demonics The Illustration competition was in April-May, 2011.
The Handmade competition was in September-October, 2010.
The Sport competition was in March, 2010.
So, it's been quite awhile.
I think the FontOuts are really a wonderful initiative. I hope they continue. But it is also time for an official competition.
@meek // Thanks for the compliments on the FontOuts! I may just do them monthly at this point. They were becoming a hassle.
I'm looking forward to the next official competition!
Yeah, for now, we lost one of our friend, AFT. I hope he's getting better...
@demonics: I'm with the Mr. Meek, "The FontOuts are really a wonderful initiative." Even makes a riot at the end.
Waiting for the next competition!
Punctuation question: Should a period (.) generally be on/above/split the baseline, or is it ok however you want to do it?
@fartheststar Usually it sits above the baseline with little or no overshoot.
@meek - thank you. I'll track down a book at the library to read more about design. Ever since I found this site I've been examining fonts everywhere I see them (restaurants, billboards, shampoo bottles, company logos, etc)
@fartheststar: I found Karen Cheng's book 'Designing Type' really useful. It covers the design and proportions of serif and sans-serif faces really well.
I add a web bookmark to my home screen and this is what I get! Meek, do you know about this and what does it mean?
This font is just beautiful // http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/singles/typetogether/eskapade_fraktur_regular_ot/
@demonics Just a side effect of changing servers yesterday. Should be fixed now. Thanks for letting us know!
Meek, I have a suggestion for FS: All blocks LIKE 'More Latin' (Yes, Unicode too,) need a special "Copy from [Latin/Greek/other language]" button, so it'd take less time to copy every glyph in a HUGE font. (Working on my font Extra Extreme...)
Now that would belong in fm FontStruct Suggestions, no? ;)
By the way, copying diacritics too.
when did this happen :Q
@Umbreon126: I didn't know there were multiple forums. Now I do. :P
@Umbreon126 (again): What's so AWESOME about the Sau.. rash.. tra letter vocalic R?
More Unicode blocks have character names in the FontStructor now (not only Saurashtra) (eg. Devanagari Extended, Kayah Li,...) yaay
16 hrs to go and I only have 6 glyphs done for my final entry! Gotta finish! :-)
I love finding typographical “Easter eggs” in movies. What I mean by this is finding fonts in a film that were designed after the time period that it’s set in.
For example, I was watching the recent movie “Secretariat,” set in 1969, and lo and behold, there was Arial!
Anyone else experience these? ;-)
I designed this logo with FS. (Except for the circle, of course.) What do you think?
FontStruct is beginning to be even a more powerful font editor than some paid ones. I love it.
Beautiful in its simplicity. :)
@demonics: The best thing about FontStruct is it's simplicity and... it's limitations. Rather than struggling with adjusting X and Y positions of guides, points, anchor points and all of stuff like that you are given a grid and a set of shapes inscribed in squares. Sometimes, especially when you're dealing with modular typefaces it's A LOT more efficent and easier to manipulate. You don't have to input any numbers (or even worse, arithmetic expressions), you just have to put those bricks wherever you want. No need to measure, sketch, no trials and errors if one wants to keep exact letter weight everywhere, spacing, dimensions and so on.
Can't agree with you completely, as long as FS doesn't have some kind of bezier curves (I hope it will never ever have anything like that!) it can't compete with paid editors. Paid editors - it takes long to achieve results using them, but they provide unlimited possibilities, FontStruct - ultra-fast for some specific tasks, but inefficient when it comes to curves, in other words: limited possibilities. Not like it's no good, long live FontStruct the way it is.
I also made a logo in FS (actually it's a logotype). It's a lettering for my game (it says "Vorteks") - never published it here, just downloaded the font. As I wrote two paragraphs above, coming up with something like this in a vector graphics editor, a design where thickness of all it's elements is always the same, would be extremely painful.
(of course only the silhouette was made with FontStruct, the effects were added in Photoshop)
In FS the whole thing is only 13 bricks tall, beat that, Illustrator, beat that, FontLab Studio.
Hey, demonics, it sounds like a cool idea for the next FontOut - to create a purely pictorial logo for an imaginary company, a dingbat, pictogram, symbol, but without any letters. We've been dealing with letters all the time, but dingbat fonts are fonts too!
(and sorry if there's something that you don't understand, my English skills are still horrible)
@Neo Pfft, your english is great. I totally agree with you on all of that except for the no bezier curves thing. It'd be more of an advanced thing, and most of the newer fontstructors wouldn't have to deal with all those complicated numbers and such! But the possibility for the more advanced fontstructors to be able to use those curves would be a fantastic addition.
Limitations are good in some ways, because that's where the human race becomes the most creative. However, in this case, because we already attempt to do bezier curves with fontstruct, I think that it'd be best to just have the option for them in it.
Yeah. Rant over. xD
Now that I look at it out of the comment box, it looks like much less of a rant! xP
I completely agree with you. Thanks for the input.
@neoqueto // I guess by “more powerful” I meant “able to spur more creativity,” which is where your message was headed. I think creativity is more important, maybe, than raw power :-) PS great logo! And I'll think about starting up FontOut again after Stencilcomp. (once a month maybe)
And Rahi, amen about limitations! That's what I love about FS!
Thanks Yautja, you're the minimal type yourself!
Btw, I'd love to continue FontOuts. I think it should work more like the Stencilcomp did, in which you're only allowed three entries, tho. That'd prevent entry-spamming like AFT's, and most people don't need more than 3 anyway!
If you're running out of ideas for themes, then you could easily ask for suggestions, too! There are many fontstructors out there that could probably come up with good ideas for FontOut themes.
But yeah, I would really like to do more fontstructing for a purpose, such as FontOuts. I like feeling productive. ;P
@rahi // I've already decided to limit the number of entries per person (I think 5 is a better bet).
And, for the last 6 FontOuts, I've asked for as many suggestions as possible and only gotten about 2 responses. I tried :-)
And amen to feeling productive!
Ouch. Well, I know I have some ideas. I didn't participate until one of the more recent ones, so I don't actually know what's been done and what hasn't. So disregard anything that's already been done, kay?
•Every once in a while, make it an advanced font out. Which means, it'd require more out of the participants. For instance:
1. A font using fake Bézier curves.
2. A filter font using negative space (Like fs Light and Teris)
Idk if that'd work, but I feel like the fontouts are geared more towards the entire community. Which isn't a bad thing! I just think every so often, more challenging fontouts would be nice.
•Other fontout ideas:
1. Make a font based on cursive
2. Make an italicized font
3. Make a font based on a one you find on a sign/advertisement
4. Draw a picture with fontstruct (A generalization of Neo's suggestion)
I'll prolly think of more tomorrow. These are all off the top of my head. xD
Some suggestions from the previous FontOuts include 3D, graffiti, and optical illusions. I like the logo/symbol and negative space ideas too.
@Rahi // Wow, thanks! I'll keep all that in mind. No, wait, I'll write it down. OK. Thanks again !
@Yautja // Whoops, must have missed those. Thanks for reminding me. :-) I will take note of those as well.
i got a serious hinting problem. and googled for hours to find tutorial but hinting without font lab seems to be a kind of magic.
i would be endlessly thankful for good tutorial (for beginners) or (auto)hint tool besides ttfautohint.
PLEASE HELP! - the font is hurting my eyes but i need to use it and i need to learn how to hint
I don't know much about hinting apart from the general idea. I'm sure you can do some hinting in FontForge. They have a page of information about hinting: http://fontforge.org/hinting.html
Having some fun with the new bricks :)
You're rockin' it Yautja :-)
@meek: thanks for your reply. i found a fair solution after a long search full of terminal agony and adobe confusion. – i was a hugh fan of fontforge but i gave up on it since i can't get it to work on my macbook.
There are some strange new FontShop ads here now... Helvetica, Gill Sans, Stone Sans, very strange that they're advertising these common fonts!
Hi, I'm an aspiring young FontStructor who needs some ideas for fonts, I'm running out of ideas. (and I still need to finish Kallum Sans and make a serif version out of it.)
FS staff, always wanted to ask this:
Where is that logo glyph "F" located? You know, the one that substitutes every missing glyph? Can we customize it in fontstructor? Or should we use some other software? Thank you!
I'm guessing it's in the FontMortar or whatever it's called.
if you open the font file in a font editor, you will see the f is in the null character position. this is usually the first glyph that is displayed. in other font files, it is usually a block with an X inside :) can't customize, unless you download the file and open it elsewhere.
@funk_king you are correct.
I have question regarding kerning and ligatures. Look for the sample image below. I created kerning pair for ap, pp (seconnd picture). So my question is: Am I doing it the right way? Or should I create "app" ligature using OpenType feature?
And thanks for answering previous question, I knew that it's editable using software, I just wanted to know if it was possible to edit it in FS, so, it's not editable...
Has anyone else noticed that Beate's hidden a lot of fonts? :s
@Umbreon: Yeah, so download 'em before they disappear! I don't do that with my fonts (except if they were really, really bad)
My favorite thing about FS is its simplicity. No bezier curves, no vector points, no complex math, no smashing your computer in frustation. Just placing little bricks on a grid, nothing hard, nothing complicated. And you can even "be advanced" with stacking and compositing! It's so simple even 10-year-olds like me can use them. FS is my favorite website, and my most visited website. Thank you, Rob Meek.
There's a bug, FS staff. It says 0 shared fontstructions on everybody's public profile page.
@architaraz. Thx! fixed.
I think they need a logo redesign.
@dm: Yeah, that logo looks dated. I like designing logos, maybe i'll make one for this company.
Not sure if this is the 'right' place... I wanted to share following image (had something similar earlier today, and discovered 5 brick types exchanged on a new font I am doing after I clicked on one of the pairs of bricks *hmph* costing 3 hours' work) Is that a simple cache problem?
@Aeolien: No, it's not a cash problem. Fontstructor has the option where you can replace the used brick with another by dragging it to the top of a brick.
Here, just read the brick swaps section:
@archi : thank you! I had not seen that information. Now all is clear to me :)
Just because a font is hidden doesn't mean you can't see its rating, LOL. Which also means that it seems like one could sneak a (rather limited) peek at any font...
Franklin Gothic. I lol'd
(note: the tumblr's name contains one swear word)
AHEM. I haz a question: is it allowed for two people to share 1 account?
Seems to be allowed. No one got mad at me for sharing 2012 Collab with, like 7 other people. xD
ATTENTION FS USERS: THIS GAME IS FUN! http://type.method.ac/#
...And here are the three great typogames (Kern, Berzier curves and Color) from the Method of Action website. Enjoy!
Ah, I need to get back to FS. I don't know how long I've been gone — photography is pulling me in. I need to get back. I miss this site.
@demonics : maybe you could insert some of your photograhic work on some of your samples, at the occasion...
@AFT — good idea!
Yeah! That would be cool to combine 2 of your interests. I recenttly combined 2 of mine with 5Circuitboard, electronics and font design. :)
Is it possible to make the brick on the left? (2x2 filter settings)(The right 2/3 of the picture is just a clarification of the top half of what I'm trying to make here.)
@Umbreon126: I don’t see a way to make that brick, currently.
@Umbreon126 - I think that might be too complex. Looks like you would need a 4x4 composite for this (16 bricks to make 1 composite).
You can do with 4 bricks as a 1x1 filtered set. Just add the two square bricks underneath...
Ah, okay. Thanks for the help though :)
I found this ..... http://archertarot.wordpress.com/2011/02/25/typeface-tarot/ ...
I think it fits the feel of FS ;)
@Umbreon126, Goatmeal: I could be wrong, but would only a 2x4 (8 brick) composite would be required?
@ETHproductions - You are correct! :^)
That looks great!
Why so many dafont downloads? 196 in 24 hours!
Does this mean something? :3
Dear colleagues: I'm searching for another (and better) solution for this (f%$&//##!!!) B and R and others in a 2:2 grid double arc... Can you help me, pleaseeee? I'm blocked with that. Thanks a lot.
(Sorry for the two precedents comments. Delete them, please.)
@elmo: Not much of an improvement, but I think this is your best bet.
elmoyenique — Comments deleted.
A tip for users of the FontStruct forum: Bookmark this page in your browser, so you won't have to spend time searching for it in the Gallery.
@will.i.ૐ: Thank you very much, compañero!
Funny... FontShop's advertising Arial Unicode Pro MS and a Japanese font on the right side, LOL!
I just wrote a short article about fs on my website: mcmdesign.me.
Hopefully it'll bring in a few new users! :-)
Hooray! My first FontStruct competition! I can't wait!
And my 2nd comp!!! Good luck everyone!
How exciting! It will be my first comp, too! I wish us all some great creative brainwaves!
YES! My first COMPETITION!
Hmm, seems like I won't pass my exams this semester then...
Ohhh, what’s the theme, what’s the theme? Text face. Boom.
You know what, we're going to postpone FontOut8. :-)
Everyone, I am very sorry that I didn't have a chance to partake in the Scriptcomp. New fonts in the pipeline!
I'm curious to see what you might have done
Can we start up FontOut8 again now that we've got in all our entries for the comp?
Do you like this font? (sneak preview)
AFT — thanks, I will put what I started out.
winty — not many people were doing it though!
I certainly was!
Everyone say YES! if you want the FontOut to continue!
Sorry for double post (could you delete it?).
Cmon guys, let's get some more YES!'s!
The sneak preview is here.
YES YES YES YES XD
Did you know that WasteOfPaper has at least 2 fontstructions? It is a fact because when I clicked the 'Apostle' tag, it said 2 fontstructions were shared!
winty — it's also a lot of work for me... I don't feel it's worth it. I'd like to get others' opinions on it (should we continue?)
Maybe somebody else could help with it; I think it's a great idea.
It would be nice to have this one completed, so yes!
I’ll throw in an F* YES!
Hey, great more YES's! Even will wants to continue, and he's a PRO fs'or, so we shoud definitly continue!
@ETH: OOH! OOH! I WANNA HELP!
"Fave Tags". Is this a new feature?
I think not really new, I've seen it weeks ago... (I don't really remember), or maybe it's a really new feature that I've never seen before but I think I've seen it?? XD
No, Fave tags has always been there
New font "dm No" coming soon!
@demonics this puts a smile on my face. awesome. looking forward to seeing the rest.
It looks amazing!!! I can't wait to see that new font!
Preview of "13work"
@winty It's my first "ink trap" font, and perhaps my best.
I like ink traps!
Smth's wrong. I can't edit any fontstruction.
Hmm, I can edit, but I can’t download from either the fontstructor or a fontstruction’s page...
@architaraz: Maybe a flash issue? Emptying your browser cache might help.
I've tried it, but no help. Smth's wrong with Flash, it keeps crashing, and some recently edited fonts are not displaying at all (meaning preview is blank).
@architaraz: Yeah, I see what you mean. All my private fontstructions are displaying as empty (and won’t load in the fontstructor) while still showing the correct character count. Probably a server issue that Rob is working out.
Sorry. I just saw this. Looks like we ran out of disk space. Hopefully ok again now.
Thanks, Rob! Looks like you solved the problem.
Is this as smooth as it can get?
Delete the above comment and this, please.
I think if you used some composites it could be smoother, but you only really used basic bricks, so yeah it probbably could by smoother.
Well, could someone could help me by making an image of how it could improve if it could. 1x1 filters.
I've been wanting to ask this, why doesn't Tell the World's choose a thumbnail option display glyph overview? I remember it did that, where it would display font's name and glyphs (ABCDEF...), but now it only asks to choose from some images that mostly don't have any relation to the font.
Thank you in advance.
@meek: Thanks, it worked only for a day, I'm experiencing this problem again...
@j4s13: You can try something like this sample, using the wonderful set of bricks made by the great djnippa!
All Composites saved in MY BRICKS
I can't upload the sample. Why? It's a jpg image, 380x380 px size, absolutely normal... I'm trying with another one... Sorry.
Testing why samples don't appears...
OK, Confirmed: my images don't appear today here.
Does it end with .jpeg/.jpg, .png, or .gif?
I'm trying now to add an image I've loaded before, in my font "zouvenir2U eYe/FS" BTW...
Well, I can't add any image. SOS Fontstruct's Staff, pleaseeeee!!!
SOS STAFF here too! For me the problem is even worse! At home with my Windows/Googlechrome connexion i can't even sign in! Here at work we have a Linux/Firefox connexion and i could sign in and could work on fonts (private as public), but i can't download the result ! We have also at work another Windows/ internet explorer-googlechrome as i have at home but i can not sign in either!
Flash is crashing today everytime I try to do anything.
Is anybody else having these problems? It has happened to me from three different computers.
@algamar My flash is crashing too. Worked fine last week. :(
Oops. Sorry. My comment got sent twice. :/
Flash crashes in FF 22 every time I load the Fontstructor. The reason seems to be that it (Flash) flushes the RAM. I stopped the process when it took up half of the RAM on my laptop. Obviously, other have the same problem, too.
Sorry about the problems everyone. Should be fixed now.
Flash keeps on crashing on Ubuntu 12.04. I'll try on a Windows system in an hour.
I can't open none of my fonts! (no in Firefox, no in Chrome, no in Safari, no in Opera...). What happens? It's an attack to FS?
Flash crashes on Windows Vista business. Everything worked fine on July 10th. It looks like I'm not the only one having these problems.
I cant download any fonts. Everytime I click download I am asked to sign in... even if I am already signed in.
I cannot EDIT any of my fonts. Shockwave keeps crashing. Also two recent fonts are not even showing any visible characters.
I can edit my fonts, but I can't download them, from inside the Fontstructor or outside. When I hit the download button while viewing a font, it takes me to the download page, which shows up as a blank window. When I download inside a font, Fontstruct says it downloads, but it doesn't actually...
I have a newer version of Flash that I downloaded just a month ago, so that may be why the Fontstructor works for me. And at least for me, the image uploading still isn't working.
I had also downloaded a new version of Flash a month ago.
meek, still not able to download the font I've been working on...Hexatrek 2 - http://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/849398
Any chance you can look into the issue please? Thanks!
It's also not fully displaying some of the larger more complex fonts.
I can't even upload images either. Head desk!
Okay people, let's go over the problems here:
We can't edit or create new fonts (Which is REALLY ANNOYING)
We can't upload images
We can't download our fonts
And FS is loading REALLY slowly.
@winty: Don't worry, Mr. Meek is much more of a wizard than I am. ;-)
Also, I only have problems 2 and 3. Strange...
I have ALL FOUR! D:
It looks like Flash is screwing up around the "Loading FontStruction" part due the the server errors FS it obviously having, and using up gobs of RAM until it freezes and crashes... (It's even using more RAM than Firefox... I thought that was impossible!)
Ugh. I had that same problem with Flash on my laptop on July 7. But when I switched to our desktop computer later that day, Flash worked fine. I don't currently have a problem with Flash on either computer.
And another small issue: the 'Hide' button isn't working.
FS is back and seems to be working again :D
All bak to normal for me now. :)
YES! FS IS BACK! Thanx Meek ;)
FS is back, and I've been working on a Bodoni-based font. Should I make it serif or sans-serif? Which serif (if you picked serif)? Which base?
@j4s13: This is my (&%%$!!!...) sample!
This is my letters with the use of fs curves.
Smth's wrong with downloads counter. All of the recently produced works have 0 downloads, which isn't true, cause generally, each font must have at least 1 download by its creator.
Yes, I noticed that. The recent top picks will not show any download at all. I've contacted FS about it and they say I should send a font with that problem.
Ah, a problem with the counter. I thought it was the downloads themselves. I will look into this.
Thanks, Meek, seems you've taken care of it. There's one more thing, I'm unable to hide comments, and maybe other users too, a message with server error pops up. Thanks in advance.
Just stumbled upon this!
Click the image for a bigger version.
@FB: Where's the image? :P
Been working on a font lately (it's called [insertmylastname :P] Humanist:
@meek and staff: Thanks for fixing the hide button and the download counter. I'm not sure why, but it seems that downloading has stopped working again. I think that it may be related to the counter? Are any other fontstructors experiencing this problem?
@j4s13: Wow, is that really made with Fontstruct?? That is a very impressive start! The only thing I might suggest is to lower the stems, just a little, so they don't look so tall against the rounded arches.
BTW, nice use of fs curves!
I have been looking at font editing programs - most of which are just way too expensive for my pocket.
TypeTool3 however is reasonably priced and generally gets good reviews. Has anyone used this program and, if so, what do you think of it?
@p2pnut: You could consider Font Creator Pro, they've added this new feature "color fonts"...
And I don't think it's just about price tag. I somehow found it very difficult to adapt to fontlab studio for example, even if it's the most expensive font software out there, while with fcpro it was just a few minutes and you already know a little what's what in it... But it's just me of course...
And of course, Happy Birthday to you-know-who :)
Happy Birthday m!
@p2pnut: I'm currently using FontForge, zero price with professional features. Includes kerning, custom ligatures, and an easy-learned interface.
Although it may not as handy and effective as FontLab and FontCreator does, but it is a great choices for those who have a low budget but needs a high quality font editor...
@architaraz: When I looked at the following: http://font-editor-software-review.toptenreviews.com/fontcreator-review.html I saw that TypeTool 3 (which is essentially FontCreator lite) was rated higher than FontCreator and came second only to FontLab. It is half the price - and sadly price is a big factor for me ... FontCreator Pro costs exactly one week of my pension.
@cablecomputer: I had a good look at reviews on FontForge and decided that I am just not tech-savvy enough to get to grips with it.
I remember that review, but it was done before release of version 7 with opentype features and now with color fonts, so I'm sure they should reconsider it, but it still may remain on the 4th place cause they keep relating everything to Fontlab studio. And they didn't even mention Fonstruct. It maybe a flash program, but it's still a font creating software.
FontLab Studio also changed, it now supports 65535 glyphs too.
I've tried almost every one of those software and chose FC cause I actually could do smth in it. I think you should do the same and choose what best suits your personal taste.
@p2pnut: If you use a mac … you can try Glyphs - http://glyphsapp.com/ - You can get a mini Version (This is a slimmed down version) for 45$ in the apple store.
INKTRAPS -- F**k Yeah Typeface Design
Eid Mubarak to all the Muslim fontstructors and around the world!
Thanks! It was really a challenge fasting considering the weather here in Shanghai.
Oh yes! This would make FS a better place.
@architaraz Wow congratulations for passing it! Are you going back to your home town this Eid to meet your family?
@FontBlast - Just like past case. When spam or spam-like comments were around, meek instantly make a new FAQ about comments ethiquette...
@MF-Lab: Thanks for the info - but I am still using my trusty, steam-driven old PC :)
@cc: Thanks! I've been fasting since maybe 16 years old, but it's always been a challenge. Back to my hometown... Maybe a year ago I would, but now I have a family of my own. I go to Kazakhstan only when I have to.
And since Chinese use Chinese characters, it's really hard to get inspiration for typography here :)
@meek: Great news yet again! You could add a report button to make things easier.
I closed my fonstruct this morning in perfect conditions and when I opened it again this evening THIS happened. ¿Is this happening to someone else or is it just me?
I'm working on a font outside of Fontstruct (News Antique):
Any suggestions on how to improve the 'a'? I don't really like it.
Whoops, what just happened there?
FTL — Here's what I'd do.
1 Make the whole character more condensed, narrower.
2 Lower the bar in the middle.
3 Make the tail not have a pointed tip.
Post a sample when you're done!
@FTL: Shorteneing/narrowing the top, so that it is not as wide as the bowl, might make it look more balanced.
@FTL: Umm, more curved head (a bit) and fatter stomach (a bit), for more balance...
Hello, I'm new here. I would like to be a good font maker, I've started on one (hello (unfinished) ) but its unfinished and not great. does anyone have any tips or suggestions to help me?
@prettylittletrumpet: just keep making a lot of fonts and study how other fonts are made — you're already off to a good start. Remember to read the FAQ and help pages.
There are also these to help:
All Composites saved in MY BRICKS
Tutorial - 45 degree angles
@FTLogomaker I think
Can someone help?
AFT might like this
Yes indeed, but actually i already saw it because it is published at Hellofont where i began to show mine
Who is old enough to remember this:
Somewhere in our house is the original newspaper supplement where the article appeared. I think it would have been the perfect news article for us here! I wonder if we can get a reprint?!
for demonics, this 1930 poster
@Aeolien: :-) I well rember that old newspaper 'article' ... it was on 1st April (All Fools Day).
I loved it, especially as back then my hobby was Letterpress printing. I had three hand press machines - including a beautiful little Victorian one. I had quite a variety of fonts (all in their old wooden cases), plus a lot of blocks that I had either designed myself or had picked up secondhand.
Lovely days, messing around with real metal and ink.
Can't decide. Can someone help?
If you're (j4s13) referring to which serifs, I prefer the fourth sample.
Thanks! And that is the only difference, FYI. ;)
abneurone — wow, impressive! i like those.
Thanks Demonics for showing me the way.
osyenvyeter — no problem.
Sweeping waves of ink wash gracefully across the screen in this Script competition winner.
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