Forum: general typography (archive 1)
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The forum for all things typography. -
Info:Created on 6th May 2012. Last edited on 11th August 2013.
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Also, don't forget about all the other forums.
Sometimes I think FS has gotten too deep, you know? All these fierce discussions about trolls & whatnot has slightly dampened the effect of this wonderful program. Don't get me wrong, I love it. But I ask myself: does rating and being in whatever place on the top picks really matter?
@ demonix : Just some thoughts inspired by your comment above.
I read the link given by demonics, and it got me thinking - doesn't the balanced rating encourage people to give more extreme ratings?
I never give ratings without a comment ... that would be meaningless. My standard 10/10 is given in recognition of excellent work - or as encouragement, especially to new 'structors who have made an effort that I think should be recognised.
I have said it many times before, and will always believe, that the comments of my peers is of infinitely more value than the simple click on a rating.
My advice has always been - enjoy the act of designing for its own sake. The first person to satisfy should always be yourself. If you have done something that pleases others - then that is a bonus.
- Designer is obsessed by Universality
- Artist is obsessed by Unique (even the most desillusionned postmodernists propose unique pieces on the market).
- Designer is obsessed by versatility on a maximum of contexts, or at least on a target with a large panel of consumers responding.
- Artist builds himself his own context, even if he may take the real world as starting point, even if he takes it literally, the destination is completely different. The piece he creates is a world, a context within itself which does not need necessary to take part on the "real" world while it is a crucial part of the the designer approach.
- Apart from some very few VIP artists who earn obscene amounts of money because they , or some smart people around them succeeded convincing some very rich people that their work was their taste and that they could speculate on this, generally artists are much poorer than designers, because design is considered as a "real" job by society.
- Designer is obsessed by functionality in the already existing modalities of the world. So many traditional rules can blind creativity.
- Artist is also obsessed by functionality, but "within" the limits of the Beta world he is elaborating. This Beta world could seem unfunctional regarding the usual standards, but perfectly, and precisely functioning in its own context.
- Deigner is aiming to make evolve or at least to be the everyday life best companion of people.
- Artist is not interested by everyday life, if he is, it's to push it to different level or angle. It's only materia, not the end of the process, as it is for the designer.
And to finish, a little joke, sorry in advance : Designers have much more chances to get top picked than Artists at Fontstruct.com !
@neurone Good comparison.
LAIKA is a new dynamicfont. This is a genius idea, but it may put us all out of font-related work :)
If you don't want to click on the link, I'll tell you what LAIKA is: It's a font of which you can control the weight, serif size, contrast, slant, and more right from your computer. It can look like Arial or Rockwell, Bodoni or Clarendon! Please click on the link; it's mind-blowing.
"In considering type we speak, for example, in terms of bold, thin, grotesque, classical, roman, italic: terms that all describe a defined variant of the font family. Thus we only ever see individual fixed points in what is actually an infinitely wide space of possibilities.
"With digitalisation, however, typeface has left its manifest image – cast in lead – behind, and with it all the associated limitations. Computer-based applications, the Internet and new, fluid advertising media allow us to go beyond the existing, static view of typography.
"LAIKA is neither bold nor thin, but swings between these two extremes. Its form is no longer defined statically, but alters dynamically. As well as the font’s weight, the stroke contrast, serif lengths and italic angles of the font all behave dynamically too. All these parameters can be driven and influenced by a range of inputs, in order to create a typeface that changes constantly in real time.
"LAIKA requires a whole new, dynamic understanding of typography.
"Why should a typeface be rigidly set, if it is not going to be printed? In a dynamic medium, why shouldn’t the form and the character of the typeface be understood dynamically as well? Why shouldn’t its forms change, transform, and respond to circumstances?
"Prototypical applications show their potential in combination with interactive, audiovisual inputs, data requested from the Internet in real-time (RSS feeds), and electronic components such as sensors or simple switches. In this way, an advertising text could react to passers-by, stock market prices could influence a corporate typeface, or ECG measurements taken while writing could breathe new emotional life into digital love letters.
"With LAIKA, there is finally a font that can seamlessly use the whole spectrum of its cuts. A font that is able to move between its extremes in real time. An interactive font that is able to respond to its surroundings. A font that questions deadlocked dogmas and throws up completely new design questions, and thus has the potential to revolutionise the understanding of digital typography."
from the LAIKA website
The LAIKA video on Vimeo.
The letterforms themselves aren't revolutionary. What's revolutionary is that you can essentially create fonts with a click of a mouse. And maybe they will make a program that uses more beautiful letters. The point is, right now it's not so much about how the letters look as it is that you can make entire font families by waving your mouse. I think it's a good concept that could be further developed.
@Yautja
I completely agree. FS is great at clean fonts but not so good at handmade ones.
We can agree that typography aimed to be legible and design-ish is not a form of art (I don't, but not at all though), but it's needed. It also can be boring and soulless, but we can't be intolerant about it, if there was no readibility there wouldn't be any books, newspapers, programming, even no mail, non-verbal communication between people and the Internet.
I classify myself both as an artist and as a designer. I really appreciate unique and visionary forms that are being illustrated in a form of an art, but also a perfection of a design is important to me. Perfection is there when you stand before an inaccuracy in a font, even if it contains 300 varieties. No matter it's shape, I mean it's thickness, amount of it's obliquity or size of the serifs. It needs to fit within your overall style of your design, so for more modern-looking everything else I'd (and many would) pick a sans serif font. A black or a bold type goes to a title, thin goes to the rest. But sometimes you need to be exact, especially when dealing with colors and single pixels, spacing, distances between sections and all. Sometimes you just can't decide.
So, LAIKA, in my opinion is a great tool with bright future. This tiny application seems to be a cool font generator for those who can't decide which fits better - black or extra black? Moreover, I think that tools like this should be implemented as features of software like Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, office applications and so on.
@demonics
That's right, LAIKA isn't a font, it's more like a tool. Letters can be more beatiful or just different, shaped in another way, higher or wider. Computers can't create art by themselves. There is no doubt. They don't have any soul, they're only tools that help people doing their tasks faster and easier. They don't think, those who think are their users. Letters have their own shapes and they need to be created by a human being. I can agree that "boring" typefaces that we meet all the time (like Arial, Helvetica, Futura, Avant Garde, Times, Garamond) are somehow "standardized" and it's possible for a computer to randomly generate for example the R's "cane", it can make it straight or rounded, but infinite beauty of an art can be crafted only by a human. The base shape of the font used in LAIKA was created by someone, it wasn't generated. SOOOO... why not to put an option to design it by self, for example by creating the base shape with... Bezier curves? They could also add a slider for adjusting the amount of distortion (in many ways to choose), of rounding, of height, of width, of rounding between sheriffs and the letters or of WHATEVER. Programming is also a kind of art, there are infinite possibilities ;).
The creators say that LAIKA is a full-fledged typeface for dynamic media like computer displays or smartphones. The only difference is that it can move and change in realtime. Cool. Much less "boring". In my opinion it's just a tool, but let them have their own vision. I think that fonts like LAIKA shouldn't be used frequently on websites for two reasons: I have an EXTREMELY poor computer (1,6 GHz, single-core Sempron, COME ON!!!) and it just won't work for me and many others. The second reason is that, as I said before, it works better as a tool for creating still types for still designs. Let it shine on banners, logotypes, but not as a common text. In future - maybe it's range of usability will expand.
http://vimeo.com/24358631
In the context of this conversation, Rob’s project has a lot to say about where all these disciplines meet. The links above (especially the videos) establishes beyond a shadow of a doubt how Rob Meek has a far more experimental, boundary-pushing, even revolutionary aesthetic than is often acknowledged here.
@will.i.om Nice to see you on this forum!
Excellent, both of you.
I need some input. I am thinking about doing a forum font-of-the-week-type of thing, and I was wondering:
Should I get people's input and let the FS community choose a font every week for this forum to showcase, or
Since that might be too much like the Top Pick system, should I just choose a non-FS font and showcase it every week?
Another idea is to have type battles like on typophile.com. We could hold contests! I do think the annual FS contest doesn't happen enough.
Let me know what you think!
Any suggestions?
It seems you have to make a single site if you want to make a forum font-of-the-week-type of thing or to have type battles like on typophile.com with contests.
@AFT on the bright side, at least there doesn't seem to be as many trolls now. For the year I've been here, this has been an awesome community.
Every two weeks sound good to you guys?
On another note:
I think type battles could be successful. So any thoughts on what an FS type battle would look like? Getting people to collaborate on logo design? A font challenge like the official FS contest? Contests? No contests? What should the rules be?
Let me know, and I'll hopefully get started this weekend! Thanks guys.
PS abneurone, thank you for recognising my work. It did seem like My ideas were instantly rejected sometimes.
Here is a sketch of some rules (input is very welcome):
1) All FontStruct users may participate in a FontStruggle, and can do so with as many entries as they like.
2) An entry in a FontStruggle is a public font on FontStruct, with or without accompanying sample pictures in the comments. (I don't think we should put limits on the licence)
3) The font should be tagged with "FontStruggle#" where '#' stands in for the specific number of the FontStruggle.
4) Each week/month (month seems more managable, at least in the beginning) a FontStruggle will be announced (how? in a font? by whom?) and participants can publish fonts all week/month and at the end (a quite specific time, midnight UTC?) a winner will be announced (democratically? using favourites? partly judged? by whom?).
I think it's a great initiative to get some social activity here! I've been lacking inspiration lately.
Okay. CMunk, other FSors have said that they don't want a competition. I say that we can have a competition but I don't think a winner should be announced.
I like your rules though. I also like the name FontOut!
Guys, let's just ignore the trolls, ok? They just want attention which is what we're giving them. So let's not pay attention to 1/10 raters.
Can someone elaborate on this remixing idea?
One more thing: I think forum (me) should post a forum dedicated to being the place where people upload their sample images for the competition.
Welcome to the very first FontOut!
Rules & Guidelines:
1) All FontStruct users may participate in FontOut, and can do so with as many entries as they like.
2) An entry in a FontOut is a public font on FontStruct, with or without accompanying sample pictures in the comments. It can also be a picture. There are no limits on licence.
3) The font must be tagged with "FontOut#" where '#' stands in for the specific number of the FontOut.
4) Every two weeks, a FontOut will be announced and participants can publish fonts or images within that two-week time period.
This FontOut
Create a font that has ___ and ___. The font must include ___. Sample images must have ___.
Let's see what our FontStruct community can do!
Any suggestions?
The sites are http://www.fonts2u.com/ and http://www.fontineed.com/.
There are a number of other FONTSTRUCT fonts on each site.
I have contacted both of them stipulating that unless they are removed immediately further legal action will be pursued due to copyright infringement. So a warning to you all, when you make a font PRIVATE, it does not make it secure.
If no, it's his new fonts and he's ever working here not so long ago!
Trial Case: I'm wondering if it's possible to create a composite using "blank" or "empty" bricks? For example. If I want to take this 22.5 degree angle that's flush against the left and make an 11.25 degree angle flush against the left,
1) can I select the 2 bricks w/ the shape and the 2 bricks to the right to create the smaller angle? (This is more a generic question - not just for this particular case, because I can see cases where I might want to do something similar, like taking the curved shape below to do similar composite curve.
2) Messing around I see I can do this using the horizontal brick size filter - I can get to where I can visually create the 11.25 degree angle as shown - but the created composite brick itself is a 45 degree angle. I've tried to copy the created 11.25 degree angle that I see to another fonstruct set open on another browser tab, but it still copies as a 45 degree angle. Am I going about this in the proper way to create the 11.25 degree angle brick? (again, similar question could apply to a composite of the curve shown below - this is more a generic "how" to question rather than specific).
3. Can you quickly make the inverse of a brick (an option to create an inverse making the dark areas clear and the clear areas dark)?
thanks in advance for any pointers if this has already been discussed somewhere else before. thanks
1) Not quite sure what you mean.
2) Yes, this is possible.
3) As far as I know, you cannot make an inverse of a brick.
To make a 1:8 angle, I usually:
1) put a 1:2 angle on the grid
2) put 3 square bricks lined up on the right side of it
3) select the whole contraption with the arrow tool
4) hit Shift+G
5) hold down Shift while clicking on the newly created composite in My Bricks
6) erase the 3 unneeded rectangles.
Tutorial - 45 degree angles
It's difficult enough as it is to get the bricks to line up using only 45° angles, but when you start adding 30º and 60° to the mix -- not to mention the numerous angles permitted by FontStruct 2.0's compositing (22.5°, 11.25° and 15°) -- difficulty and design limitations rise quickly...
That said, any word on a new official FontStruct competition? Meek?
The Handmade competition was in September-October, 2010.
The Sport competition was in March, 2010.
So, it's been quite awhile.
I'm looking forward to the next official competition!
@demonics: I'm with the Mr. Meek, "The FontOuts are really a wonderful initiative." Even makes a riot at the end.
Waiting for the next competition!
By the way, copying diacritics too.
AWESOME
@Umbreon126 (again): What's so AWESOME about the Sau.. rash.. tra letter vocalic R?
For example, I was watching the recent movie “Secretariat,” set in 1969, and lo and behold, there was Arial!
Anyone else experience these? ;-)
FontStruct is beginning to be even a more powerful font editor than some paid ones. I love it.
Can't agree with you completely, as long as FS doesn't have some kind of bezier curves (I hope it will never ever have anything like that!) it can't compete with paid editors. Paid editors - it takes long to achieve results using them, but they provide unlimited possibilities, FontStruct - ultra-fast for some specific tasks, but inefficient when it comes to curves, in other words: limited possibilities. Not like it's no good, long live FontStruct the way it is.
I also made a logo in FS (actually it's a logotype). It's a lettering for my game (it says "Vorteks") - never published it here, just downloaded the font. As I wrote two paragraphs above, coming up with something like this in a vector graphics editor, a design where thickness of all it's elements is always the same, would be extremely painful.
(of course only the silhouette was made with FontStruct, the effects were added in Photoshop)
In FS the whole thing is only 13 bricks tall, beat that, Illustrator, beat that, FontLab Studio.
Hey, demonics, it sounds like a cool idea for the next FontOut - to create a purely pictorial logo for an imaginary company, a dingbat, pictogram, symbol, but without any letters. We've been dealing with letters all the time, but dingbat fonts are fonts too!
(and sorry if there's something that you don't understand, my English skills are still horrible)
Limitations are good in some ways, because that's where the human race becomes the most creative. However, in this case, because we already attempt to do bezier curves with fontstruct, I think that it'd be best to just have the option for them in it.
Yeah. Rant over. xD
@neoqueto // I guess by “more powerful” I meant “able to spur more creativity,” which is where your message was headed. I think creativity is more important, maybe, than raw power :-) PS great logo! And I'll think about starting up FontOut again after Stencilcomp. (once a month maybe)
And Rahi, amen about limitations! That's what I love about FS!
Thanks Yautja, you're the minimal type yourself!
If you're running out of ideas for themes, then you could easily ask for suggestions, too! There are many fontstructors out there that could probably come up with good ideas for FontOut themes.
But yeah, I would really like to do more fontstructing for a purpose, such as FontOuts. I like feeling productive. ;P
And, for the last 6 FontOuts, I've asked for as many suggestions as possible and only gotten about 2 responses. I tried :-)
And amen to feeling productive!
•Every once in a while, make it an advanced font out. Which means, it'd require more out of the participants. For instance:
1. A font using fake Bézier curves.
2. A filter font using negative space (Like fs Light and Teris)
Idk if that'd work, but I feel like the fontouts are geared more towards the entire community. Which isn't a bad thing! I just think every so often, more challenging fontouts would be nice.
•Other fontout ideas:
1. Make a font based on cursive
2. Make an italicized font
3. Make a font based on a one you find on a sign/advertisement
4. Draw a picture with fontstruct (A generalization of Neo's suggestion)
I'll prolly think of more tomorrow. These are all off the top of my head. xD
@Yautja // Whoops, must have missed those. Thanks for reminding me. :-) I will take note of those as well.
i would be endlessly thankful for good tutorial (for beginners) or (auto)hint tool besides ttfautohint.
PLEASE HELP! - the font is hurting my eyes but i need to use it and i need to learn how to hint
Where is that logo glyph "F" located? You know, the one that substitutes every missing glyph? Can we customize it in fontstructor? Or should we use some other software? Thank you!
And thanks for answering previous question, I knew that it's editable using software, I just wanted to know if it was possible to edit it in FS, so, it's not editable...
My favorite thing about FS is its simplicity. No bezier curves, no vector points, no complex math, no smashing your computer in frustation. Just placing little bricks on a grid, nothing hard, nothing complicated. And you can even "be advanced" with stacking and compositing! It's so simple even 10-year-olds like me can use them. FS is my favorite website, and my most visited website. Thank you, Rob Meek.
http://fontstruct.com/help/foundations/working_with_bricks
(note: the tumblr's name contains one swear word)
http://method.ac/
(The right 2/3 of the picture is just a clarification of the top half of what I'm trying to make here.)
You can do with 4 bricks as a 1x1 filtered set. Just add the two square bricks underneath...
I think it fits the feel of FS ;)
@Umbreon126, Goatmeal: I could be wrong, but would only a 2x4 (8 brick) composite would be required?
(Sorry for the two precedents comments. Delete them, please.)
Hopefully it'll bring in a few new users! :-)
winty — not many people were doing it though!
Everyone say YES! if you want the FontOut to continue!
YES!
|
V
Did you know that WasteOfPaper has at least 2 fontstructions? It is a fact because when I clicked the 'Apostle' tag, it said 2 fontstructions were shared!
@winty: YES!
@architaraz: Maybe a flash issue? Emptying your browser cache might help.
Thank you in advance.
All Composites saved in MY BRICKS
Is anybody else having these problems? It has happened to me from three different computers.
Is anybody else having these problems? It has happened to me from three different computers.
I have a newer version of Flash that I downloaded just a month ago, so that may be why the Fontstructor works for me. And at least for me, the image uploading still isn't working.
Any chance you can look into the issue please? Thanks!
We can't edit or create new fonts (Which is REALLY ANNOYING)
We can't upload images
We can't download our fonts
And FS is loading REALLY slowly.
Also, I only have problems 2 and 3. Strange...
Click the image for a bigger version.
@j4s13: Wow, is that really made with Fontstruct?? That is a very impressive start! The only thing I might suggest is to lower the stems, just a little, so they don't look so tall against the rounded arches.
BTW, nice use of fs curves!
TypeTool3 however is reasonably priced and generally gets good reviews. Has anyone used this program and, if so, what do you think of it?
And I don't think it's just about price tag. I somehow found it very difficult to adapt to fontlab studio for example, even if it's the most expensive font software out there, while with fcpro it was just a few minutes and you already know a little what's what in it... But it's just me of course...
Although it may not as handy and effective as FontLab and FontCreator does, but it is a great choices for those who have a low budget but needs a high quality font editor...
@cablecomputer: I had a good look at reviews on FontForge and decided that I am just not tech-savvy enough to get to grips with it.
I remember that review, but it was done before release of version 7 with opentype features and now with color fonts, so I'm sure they should reconsider it, but it still may remain on the 4th place cause they keep relating everything to Fontlab studio. And they didn't even mention Fonstruct. It maybe a flash program, but it's still a font creating software.
FontLab Studio also changed, it now supports 65535 glyphs too.
I've tried almost every one of those software and chose FC cause I actually could do smth in it. I think you should do the same and choose what best suits your personal taste.
Thanks! It was really a challenge fasting considering the weather here in Shanghai.
@FontBlast
And since Chinese use Chinese characters, it's really hard to get inspiration for typography here :)
@meek: Great news yet again! You could add a report button to make things easier.
Any suggestions on how to improve the 'a'? I don't really like it.
1 Make the whole character more condensed, narrower.
2 Lower the bar in the middle.
3 Make the tail not have a pointed tip.
There are also these to help:
All Composites saved in MY BRICKS
Angle Tutorial
Tutorial - 45 degree angles
http://www.metaltype.co.uk/stories/story23.shtml
Somewhere in our house is the original newspaper supplement where the article appeared. I think it would have been the perfect news article for us here! I wonder if we can get a reprint?!
I loved it, especially as back then my hobby was Letterpress printing. I had three hand press machines - including a beautiful little Victorian one. I had quite a variety of fonts (all in their old wooden cases), plus a lot of blocks that I had either designed myself or had picked up secondhand.
Lovely days, messing around with real metal and ink.
(see http://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/328502)
http://wat.midco.net/jvipond/miscellany/comicfont.html
I created a huge font. It's at pixel res.
http://fontula.com
You can add the missing extrema by choosing Validation under the Elements tab. Choose Find Problems, click on the Paths tab, then check the box for "check missing extrema", then click OK. You need to have the entire font selected to do this.
Dicussion can continue here.
Comments are closed.