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Please respect their decision and desist from requesting license changes in the comments.

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Small is beautiful. I thought I could add a new spin to Stewf's little gem. I also expanded the character set a bit. It was fun.


This project has started from a clone of Leaflet Stem by Stewf. The link to the original had been lost after re-cloning, which I did to fix a technical glitch. But here it is again for the sake of convenience: Leaflet Stem
The original letters are hardly recognizable, if at all, since I've customised the lower case, fully reshaped the numbers, added the capitals, special characters, punctuation marks, as well as the extended latin glyphs. I opted for horizontal gaps, as it enhances the horizontal strokes nicely. It was a challenge to work with a 2x4 or 3x4 brick array, and wrestle with FS' limited capacity of spacing and kerning.
Comment by Frodo7 9th august 2009
Comment by Frodo7 9th august 2009
Good work! With so little pixels! I like the solutions of 'H', 'g' & 'w'. I find the spacing should be more consistent, e.g. on 'e' & 't'.
Comment by lldaddy 9th august 2009
Awesomely simple! Very readable too. I like it.
Comment by jinx 10th august 2009
Yep: really nice H solution!
But i fell in love with the g.
makes me want to write gorgeous over and over. gorgeous!
I also enjoy the & and @, 4, but specially the +
Comment by cayo 10th august 2009
dude, this is totally re-imagined and rocks. a worthy descendant of Leaflet Stem. if cloned, why no links to the original?
Comment by funk_king 27th october 2009
If you make a clone of a clone and then delete the first clone, fontstruct forgets the original link! (Oh, crap – I just told the george-cloney trolls how to really rip off someone else’s fontstructions ;) I even believe this applies if you simply haven’t published the intermediary clone. Well, the clone will indicate itself as such, but the original will no longer link to the cloned version.
Comment by William Leverette (will.i.ૐ) 28th october 2009
Oh, and I think this is pretty rad, too!
Comment by William Leverette (will.i.ૐ) 28th october 2009
Thank you for your comments. Who would have thought this simple font could sparkle interest after months of its release. Well, this fontstruction is on my list of works to be revamped and extended.

@funk_king: The answer to your question was already given in my first comment. will.i.ૐ said basically the same thing. I've changed so many things, the original could not possibly be identified by just looking at it. I've provided the info and the hyperlink to be truthful and historically correct. I think my work won't be any less if I admit its origin.

@will.i.ૐ: Thank you for your comment. There is another way of
ripping off fontstructions: simply copy and paste glyph by glyph without a trace. It is a bit more tedious, but very clean method. I was thinking about to warn Rob Meek, and tell him the possible dangers before this feature had been introduced. But then I thought the benefits greatly outweigh the risks.

I've learned a new word, a slang: rad. Thanks.
Comment by Frodo7 2nd november 2009
The extended Latin set is nearly complete. Some of the old characters underwent cosmetic surgery: I've replaced the sharp corners with soft rounded ones.
I've changed the name from Chromosomes to the more specific Karyotype. The new name is also chromosome related (for details see but has the "T word" in it.
Comment by Frodo7 2nd november 2009
Comment by Frodo7 3rd november 2009
Comment by Frodo7 3rd november 2009
The new samples make this gem glitter even more.
Comment by thalamic 4th november 2009
This just gets better and better - well worth my 10 :)
Comment by p2pnut 4th november 2009
Congratulations! FontStruct Staff have deemed your FontStruction worthy of special mention. “Karyotype” is now a Top Pick.
Comment by gferreira_admin 4th november 2009
Another great example of FontStruction remix – an original design with beautiful glyphs and tasty samples.

* * *

We are aware of the problem reported by will.i.ૐ, and we're are working to fix it. Clones need not only to mantain the links to original FontStructions, but also honour its license – this somehow also got broken in this FontStruction.

In this case, the original license from Leaflet Stem is Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike. The “Share Alike” part says that If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same or similar license to this one. Karyotype has a Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works license, which violates the original license – clones need to remain clonable.
Comment by gferreira_admin 4th november 2009
Sorry. I wrote: “clones need to remain clonable” – that's incorrect. Clones of FontStructions with Attribution and Attribution-Noncommercial licenses don't have to be made clonable.

The correct statement would have been: “clones of FontStructions with Share-Alike licenses need to have the same license as the original FontStruction”. Since Leaflet Stem has a Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alikelicense, Karyotype should be licensed under the same terms (because of the “Share Alike” part).
Comment by gferreira_admin 4th november 2009
Great remix Frodo. The Hobbits will surely revel in its cuteness and applaud its playfulness. I really like where some the characters run into one another to form ligatures, like with th, ty, rt & ru. This is especially enhanced by your decision to use the horizontal gaps.
Comment by afrojet 4th november 2009
@gferreira: thank you for your comment, and the special mention. I've changed the license accordingly.
Comment by Frodo7 4th november 2009
i think this font is unique enough that it should not be bound to the original's license if you feel otherwise. i unshared madison ave. because the original from which i cloned it has an open license. this presents the issue of when a cloned font should be able to use a restricted license when the original uses otherwise, and when the font is still original enough to not be considered merely 'a clone.' if i use and idea or technique, but none of the glyphs are remotely similar to the original's, is that fair? i suppose i will copy and paste into a new file to resolve me dilemma, although i don't really feel i should have to. and it's not that i don't want to credit the original which i will probably do again. i guess these things can be subjective, but there can always be an exception to the rule.
Comment by funk_king 5th november 2009
@funk_king: I think you have a point. I hastily changed the license to comply the requirements and didn't consider the possible implications. Shall I open the gates to countless near-identical clones of Karyotype? Shall I pay royalties to Stewf if I decide to sell Karyotype? Can I sell Karyotype under my name? These are valid question, and I have to find the answers to them. I think you are right when you say "this font is unique enough that it should not be bound to the original's license if you feel otherwise." Well, I do feel otherwise, but I want to ask Stewf and Gustavo first about their views on the matter. I think my work technically started as a clone of Leaflet Stem, and ended up a quite different one: there is not a single glyph identical in the two fonts. I'd like to untether my work from the original and have it accepted as a new design.
Comment by Frodo7 5th november 2009
frodo7, funk_king: It doesn't really matter what you guys think, and it's irrelevant if the clone ended up different than the source. Licenses are there to be respected, period. The source for this FontStruction had a Share-Alike license, so you need to share it under the same terms. It's that simple and mechanic. (And as I mentioned in my previous post, the fact that you could choose a different license is a bug, which is being addressed.)

If you, frodo7, don't like the terms under which the original FontStruction was licensed, you shouldn't have cloned it in the first place. Licenses need to be carefully studied and considered up-front. We all need to get used to that.

Of course I can see the differences in the final design, and I do understand your feelings about it's future. (I have done a lot of work on GPL fonts, for example, and I can't change their license either). The solution for you to break free from the viral “Share-Alike” clause would be to rebuild your design from scratch. Small-grid FontStructions such as this one can be built quite quickly (in comparison to high-res ones or ‘real’ outline fonts). Once you have done that, you are free to choose whatever license you want, since it will be 100% your work and effort.

Copy & paste is indeed a grey zone. AFAIK, we don't have any mechanism in place to prevent copy&paste between fonts with incompatible licenses. In this particular case I would consider copy&paste cheating – the brick assembly work would still be someone else's, you just woudn't credit it. I wouldn't feel good about it.

(I'm not a lawyer, so all the above is not legal advice but my personal interpretation as a designer and user.)
Comment by gferreira_admin 6th november 2009
Just thinking out loud (in print?), but maybe there should be a feature that the originator of the share-alike licence can authorize a licence change in a clone. Probably too much work for such a rare circumstance, but might be helpful.

Or even a way for the two parties (cloner and clonee) to contact the mods to request such a change?

- Lex

P.S. I love the 'E' in Karyotype. Very wiggly :-)
Comment by LexKominek 6th november 2009
I have to agree with gf. A clone needs to respect the original license, whatever that maybe. And, yes to Frodo7 on the uniqueness of the new design. But isn't that the point of cloning: to modify the original so that it does end-up as a new font, as Frodo7 has done, based on an existing design. A true clone, or even a minor clone doesn't really do anything new, does it?

There are two things I'd like to see in the future: 1, More license options. 2, the ability for the original designer to know how many of the clones exist for any particular fontstruction, even if they are not yet shared.
Comment by thalamic 6th november 2009
@Lex: In pixels! :-) Yes, getting an express permission from the original creator to change the licensing terms could be another (easier) option. I don't know how to formalize that though. Will do some research.
Comment by gferreira_admin 6th november 2009
@thalamic: What other license options would you like to have?
Comment by gferreira_admin 6th november 2009
I've mentioned this on another thread somewhere here, but I can't remember where...

Anyway, I wished for the ability to give a copy of a font to another specific user.

Then I can make a font public, but not cloneable. However, if there is someone I'm willing to give the "source" to, I can send them a copy.
Comment by aphoria 6th november 2009
@gferreira: I understood the rules of license should prevail, even if it's unfavourable to me this time. It is very important to consistently apply a strong legal framework, no matter what, because that's the very foundation of releasing and sharing creative artworks. The license of Karyotype is and will remain Creative Commons Attribution Non-commercial Share Alike.

As you and others suggested, I have a few options.
1. Unshare the font. I think in this case it would be a very ungentlemanly thing.
2. Rebuild it from scratch. That would be within the legal requirements, but I don't feel particularly good about it. No, this font remains open to cloning, and I'm happy with it. Let's hope to see some clever new mutations coming, and no malicious copy cats on those web sites (you know what I'm talking about).
3. While creating this font I have discarded some variations. I could dust them off and make a new font, with a slightly different flavour, free of any inherited limitations. Perhaps I may do this some day.

I feel somewhat embarrassed about the whole issue. To me this particular font was of lesser importance. I didn't want to make so much fuss about some ditzels. And I feel some times sympathy for you. It is the most difficult to deal with creative people. They are the worst of all kind: they are far too conceited, demanding, often impatient, have critical opinion and independent thinking. But what is left without them: only sheep.
Comment by Frodo7 6th november 2009
well you shouldn't feel embarrassed frodo. i don't. it is a legitimate issue. i think we should be able to raise items of particular importance to us without fear ridicule. i would worry less about our understanding of licenses than those who have clearly violated them as we have witnessed recently. they are the ones who deserve contempt and ridicule from the FS community. not us.
Comment by funk_king 6th november 2009
One thing no one could ever accuse you of is being ungentlemanly Frodo. You were upfront from the beginning and have dealt with this in an upright and open manner.

Keep on producing you excellent designs and remain the generous, encouraging member of this community that you are.
Comment by p2pnut 6th november 2009
Frodo, I owe you a big thanks, not just for giving me an opportunity to talk about licensing issues, but also for your fantastic production and your generous comments — THANK YOU!
Comment by gferreira_admin 9th november 2009
Congratulations! FontStruct Staff have deemed your FontStruction worthy of special mention. “Karyotype” is now a current Featured FontStruction.
Comment by gferreira_admin 25th november 2009
Wow! This is my first Featured Download. It made my day. Thank you!
Comment by Frodo7 26th november 2009
Congratulations - well deserved :)
Comment by p2pnut 26th november 2009
Vote 4 Stars for you because that font
Comment by Hamzah 6th december 2009


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