Cebrosys

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by SymbioticDesign
See also Cerebrosys by SymbioticDesign.

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First of all, I have to say that I have admired p2pnut, djnippa & winty5's fontstruction works for quite some time. But when I copy the bricks and look at them I am kind of lost. Then, along came Spacerock Light by LexKominek. Really, those seemingly perfect circles stunned me. Not that I haven't run into them before, I just never realized that I could clone them, before. So I decided I had to try something along the lines that these guys were doing. But I was still overwhelmed by all those blocks. I copied one character from Spacerock Light and already decided to base the whole font on the arc of that circle. Then, I started impressing myself. ;) Basically, I'm trying to build a foundation and then use that as a blueprint for other designs. I already know that Cebrosys will be cloned and redesigned with wider letter forms (M, N, W, X, Y, Z) before I make it public. HISTORY I copied the 'o' from Spacerock Light by LexKominek on August 26th, 2013, but didn't actually start making any other letters/characters until August 30th, 2013. I took a break to work on My hand drawn fonts (4 via MyScriptFont.com and 2, including Milton Serif via PaintFont.com). So far, I have the foundation of Milton Serif Bled Normal, done. I still have to make a few minor adjustments to that one before I release it, but I am pretty excited about it because it offers more glyphs than I have ever done before. If I could only find a decent font editor to run on My computer I would be able to finish it off real quick, but I can't get anything but Fontographer (the demo version, anyway) to run on my system. September 5th, 2013: I finished off all the rounded characters today. Started on the letters that don't have curves. I've decided that I went overboard trying to save space with character width, as the circular characters are much broader. But I have done so many that I am going to finish this version and then clone it and make a better version (working font name, 'Cerebrosys'). September 6th, 2013: Added a subscript ℠, the tiny midline ℡ and the superscript ™ marks. Working on finishing the existing angled characters, cloning it and creating a new version with broader angled line based letters. Then, I will have to narrow up some of the more simple line based characters in Cebrosys (this font). Finished the uppercase characters (Yippee!). Finished the lowercase characters, though I think I will redo the u. Working on punctuation, now. September 7th, 2013: Still working on the punctuation. Added a © and lots of punctuation glyphs. 133 characters @ 2:00am and I still have to start on the numbers, yet. September 16th, 2013: Sidelined by some other projects while My hip heals from surgery. Today I added the ` (Grave accent) ® (Registered Trademark) and the @ (at-sign) symbols. I keep looking at the ` SM and TM thinking they might be too small, and yet I know they are supposed to be pretty small, maybe not that small? Or maybe I am getting it right when everyone else gets it wrong? Yeah, right, that's it. LOL I added the & (ampersand), but it looks a bit wonky to Me, I will have to see what I can do to straighten it later. Added < (less than) & > (greater than) signs, started on the numbers, 0 (zero) is the only one done so far. September 17th, 2013: Added , 1 (one) and 2 (two) in the wee hours and a 3 (three) before my appointment with a web design client. September 18th, 2013: Finished off the numbers. Started work on the curly brackets. October 1st, 2013: I finally have what I think are acceptable curly brackets. I added the upside down exclamation mark, made the C in the Copyright symbol smaller, added a cent sign and an English pound symbol (this one took a while). October 2nd, 2013: I am now at the point where I can clone this one and fix the letter characters according to the style. That is, I will make a new wide font set (with the wide characters I like and extending some of the skinnier ones) and then skinny-ing up the letters in this font. But before I do the clone job, I want to do all the punctuation I need for both sets (doing it one time for both fonts here). So, I am looking back over it and see lots of tiny punctuation I have to enlarge because it is just too small for such a big-ass font. So right now I am having a good long look at, noting and addressing the punctuation issues. Added the universal symbol for currency. November 7th & 8th, 2013: Tried to correct a lot of the punctuation that had just been too light and unnoticeable because I am not used to editing such a large font. Corrected: Overline, undertie, overtie, inverted overtie, the bullet, the Copyright symbol, the SM, TEL & TM marks, the left and right parentheses and the tilde. The tilde may have become too bold, now (note to self), I had lots of trouble getting it to look bold enough and I may have overdone it. I also added the low asterisk and put a big-ass bullet in the hole for the close-up character. Added my logos as the replacement characters. The font is almost ready to fork. I just need to make sure there aren't any characters I want to add. I don't think this one or the next version will be a good web font, it is too light, but eventually I want it to be a web font, so I want to make sure it will have the important characters, dings and punctuation before I fork it. November 9th, 2013: Added a third version of My logo in the Specials letterset group. Started on the Roman Numerals (up to XII, now). The I's, V's & X's all currently have an embellished flair, and could easily be categorized as serifs. February 24th, 2014: Retail kept me busy during the Christmas season. Finally catching up on my own business. Added the roman numerals L (50), C (100), D (500) & M. I used the capital L, C & D of the regular basic roman characters, but modified them and made them alternate characters; the foot of the L is a little longer, the C opening is a bit more closed, while the hoop of the D is a little bigger and more open. For the roman numeral M (1,000) I inverted the W and used it. I will decide whether or not to make them all serif versions or make the I, V & X versions more sans characters, later. I have plenty to do right now and all sorts of adjustments I will be making later as I decide on final looks and style. March 23rd, 2014: Added the character for the roman numeral CD (400). March 25th, 2014: Added the characters for the circled 1 through 10 in the Dingbats group. March 26th, 2014: Made the characters for the circled 1 through 10 more uniform and used them in the Number Form group fractions, in the Superscripts and Subscripts group numbers, the superscript 1, 2 & 3 in Extended Latin, and added the Yen currency symbol. March 27th, 2014: Some of the letters have been bugging me. I updated the O, Q & 0, the u and the v. Added a couple of down pointing triangles that I may make other triangles and/or arrows with. I still have to reconstruct the v, x, y & z, the C and R. I also want to adjust the D a hair. I am also thinking about the E, F, L & T. Once the alphabet is right, I want to copy the letters over to the accented versions. But I also want to complete the graphic characters before I do that too, as this will be the base of the other versions of this family. March 30th, 2014: Working on the Miscellaneous Symbols group for a couple of days. There's a peace sign, male and female signs, sun and earth symbols, as well as a few others. Also worked on the black heart in Dingbats. March 31st, 2014: Redid the R, v, x, y & z. Also redid the Copyright symbol. April 1st: Have much work to do, but I am going to release it as All Rights Reserved until its done. Hopefully, I can get some input and feedback on it. April 13th, 2014: Took some suggestions from Thalamic and made adjustments to some of the characters. I went back to the skinny O and made the 0 (zero) a hare skinnier. I smoothed-out the transition between the top of the S letter's loop and the bottom of the letter S loop. I skinned up the U, E, F & H. After mulling it over, I decided to move the lower arm of the F down in line with the crossbars in the A and the G. This gives it a little bit of a distinction from the E. June 1st - 12th, 2014: Added a corrected Briitsh pound sign (£), working on a script L and added the Lira sign. Added a Euro sign. Went through the characters to revitalize this font with nudging. It really has helped, especially with symmetry, the accents and punctuation. I played with the shape of the curve of the D last weekend. I was never happy with changing the shape of the D to conform with the curves of the O. So, I scratched what I had done, included the new blah D as an alternate character for now, and went back through the characters nudging away while I mulled this over. I do understand the point people are making, it is well deserved criticism. Part of the problem was that I was trying to conform to the rules of the original font. The original font that I cloned Cebrosys from was Spacerock Light by LexKominek. But even though I only used one perfect circle (O) character that font as the basis of this one, that font boasted an economy of bricks. No arch or curve was made with more than a 4 block curve. So I had 3 and 4 block angle slices to use, and some interconnectors, but I was building a font with large curves, now. So I abandoned the original restraint that LexKominek put upon himself (using only one complete quarter arch of bricks that was made of no more than 3 and 4 block angle slices that was rotated according to need for an absolute economy of bricks and optimized filesize and load times). On about June 10th I broke down and added one of the large faux curves brick set and fixed the curve of the D. I have this intended to be a semi-condensed font, but as I hold onto the shape of my D letter's curved side, I don't think it will be any longer. I will probably extend the D's curves to the O, C, Q, etc, now. June 12th, 2014: I added the Euro Currency sign. June 13th, 2014: OK, I added some symbols (happy faces and such) and copied the latin letters to their accent homes and added the accents. Most of the original characters were copied as alternates to the Greek/Coptic or Cyllic lettersets. I also widened some of the characters to address the broader size of my D and O, now, with the new curve in place. Added a little more punctuation, as well. NOTES This is still an active, living work. I have to add some better transmissions using the new faux curve blocks. Personally, I would like some better curve blocks. I am anticipating making more versions. I am still looking for ideas on what dingbats and symbols people would like to have at the ready. ...and No responses, yet. LICENSE Eventually, I want to make this private use Freeware, but I keep releasing stuff and then spend a day or two correcting issues. So this time I'm going to just keep it All Rights Reserved for a bit, so that people can see it and help critique it while I finish work on it. FOOTNOTES I like beer. I suppose that's a footnote to Myself. Remember, GO BUY BEER! ;) Anyone can help me with that, BTW, if you feel so inclined. ;) The Meek will inherit the earth for being so good to us with this ultra cool font building tool.
Info Created on 26th August 2013 . Last edited on 14th July 2014.
License All Rights Reserved. No download available.
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I know that it's not ready to go yet, but I am looking for some feedback. Once I get some input to make this right, I'll feel better about making it available more widely. As it is, it needs some work, but it is going to be the seed for other variants.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 1st April 2014
There is no snubbing or squelching but there are two versions of the live page: “selected” and ”all”. You can change the setting with the options button at the top of the page. By default, the live page does not show all activity on FontStruct. Selection is done by an algorithm.
Comment by Rob Meek (meek) 2nd April 2014
OK, cool. I apologize, I never noticed that option, just that I never found any notices of my published or updated fonts.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 2nd April 2014
Get the full image here.
Comment by thalamic 11th April 2014
That's an interesting take on it. I agree with the '&', I have to address that and a few others. But I like an open C, a hard end on the G. I guess some are just different tastes in styles. But I thank you so much for your input! I think you are right about softening the curls in the middle of the S. I've been looking for feedback for a long time and it's great to have a little criticism to mull over.

I am also wondering what additional graphic characters people might find the most useful.

Comment by SymbioticDesign 11th April 2014
It could be a matter if taste, but I was definitely trying to be objective rather than impose my own preference in it.

For instance, the O should be flatter not because I like flat O-s but because supporting characters like G and U force it to be so. Alternatively, if you prefer the roundness of the O, make fuller G, etc.

The R leg should stick out a but because it seems a little awkwardly pulled in at the mo.

Although there is no rule that says how wide a letter should be, there is a general perception to follow. The A should not appear narrower than B, etc.

If you do something cute/weird/different/style-breaking like your 'a', replicate that same difference in some other character so that it becomes a stylistic norm for your font rather than a one-off idiosyncrocy.

I say all this as Not An Expert™. :-)
Comment by thalamic 11th April 2014
@thalamic...

Yeah, the original O did have much flatter sides. As I looked at other fonts and lettersets though, it seemed that the O was always much more round than the #0. I had originally made the number 0 skinnier than the letter O, but the difference was not so noticeable.

I have had a tough time with the R leg. Originally, it was kicked under much further than you see now. Perhaps I was just happy with the improvement? But there is a web design methodology to it's style, and that is because I am trying to make the furthest point of the leg of the R tuck under the furthest point of the circle of the R, for an economy of pixels painted. I use this not simply to optimize graphics created with the font, but to keep from pushing the next letter used further away, so that I am retaining the spacing between letters. Still, you are right, I missed that mark when I attached the R leg at the point I did in the loop because of the puzzle associated with making that connection, so I will have to address that again, as there is plenty of more room under the R loop to kick the R leg out further.

I realize that I may be breaking some rules with this font. Originally, I intended it to be a narrow version to start. Making the letter O rounder to adhere to the differences between the Letter O and the number 0 seems to have destroyed that original concept, which I started carrying over into a few other characters before I was spooked by the results, which is why I wanted some feedback, and I thank you for it. So maybe I should go back and review that approach as well.

I think you are right, that I am combining styles. I seem to like one style of a letter, but often when I try to give the letters uniformity I destroy the style I liked in another letter. So my favorite styles of individual letters drive an eclectic whole letterset. My 'a' certainly screws with the idea of conserving pixels behind the capital R (which I failed on), using the square letter space to accommodate the spacing issues. The problem is with me, wanting to do a letter in that style, and choosing the wrong font to do it in.

That said, I like to show similarities not just between lowercase or uppercase characters, but similarities between the lowercase and the capital version of the same character.

Believe me, I don't deem myself as an expert, far from it. I am so excited to discuss this font and learn from you, and anyone else willing to bend my ear, and improve its concept, decide what ideas to save and try in a different font, etc... so please do not think that my lack of attention to the font is because I am not going to listen to you, I merely have a lot on my plate at the moment and am working a great deal at the moment.

I am definitely mulling all this over though. I just don't have a chance to make any changes at the moment due to my present schedule.

And although there are some differences in our opinion of styling choices, such as continuing the loop of the top of the B, it isn't that I don't want to hear that, the case is more that I saw that as a choice and decided that then the middle of the B would look too heavy for my taste.

There are a lot of issues though. Just because you look at them from one viewpoint while I look at them from another does not make either of us wrong. Period. Your approach may see the light of day in some variant that may well prove to be better, especially once I make it clone-able and other artists can make something of it.

One thing I am trying to do is make rounded letters a bit wider than letters with straight lines. This is a normal practice in most fonts, I am just not getting it right.

But be sure I want to hear all your opinions. I may not even disagree with it, I am simply doing my own balancing act. And to be sure, I am no expert by any means, I am just trying to learn and I am excited to discuss the possibilities I have here. Discussing any limits it presents is as much a part of that. For instance, you are right, the 'a' is awkward and I will have to redo it, but it does happen to be my favorite kind of 'a'. Your pointing that out helps me deal with my own insane preferences that need to be addressed.

So, you have no idea how important this conversation is to me. Thanks! ;)
Comment by SymbioticDesign 11th April 2014
Took some suggestions from Thalamic and made adjustments to some of the characters. I went back to the skinny O and made the 0 (zero) a hare skinnier. I smoothed-out the transition between the top of the S letter's loop and the bottom of the letter S loop. I skinned up the U, E, F & H. After mulling it over, I decided to move the lower arm of the F down in line with the crossbars in the A and the G. This gives it a little bit of a distinction from the E.

I have this intended to be a semi-condensed font, but wondering if I should just make it a condensed version. Still looking for ideas on what dingbats and symbols people would like to have at the ready.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 13th April 2014
It's looking really good. Welcome to the world of big curves :)

You could perhaps give the 'f' a touch of negative kerning (bring the letter-width line inside a bit).
I would also choose to reduce the angles of the 'k' to the x-height.
Comment by p2pnut 13th April 2014
The regular letters are all very handsome on this one, but I feel as though you have neglected '£' and '&'. On '£', the line through the centre should be straight, the curve on the upper half of the left side shouldn't go as far back, and the hook on the right should be further forward. The curves on the '&' are unnecessarily uneven. I understand that it's hard to fit two even curves into the space on the '&', so I would only soften some of the sharper corners of it, rather than change the curves completely.
Comment by Cohnisgone 13th April 2014
@p2pnut...
OK, gotcha. Good points. I have to replace the % sign, too. I did that one early on.

@Cohnisgone...
Yup. The £ (pounds sign) isn't very common in America. I even forget what we use it for, so I just don't see it much. But I will follow your advice there, thank you. And you are right, that & (and-sign) was giving me fits and I sort of got tired of working on it. I really thought I could make a traditional style & with the taller letters for the first time, but I haven't given-up on it, yet.

Thanks for your feedback, guys, it means a lot!
Comment by SymbioticDesign 13th April 2014
Yes, I'm British and the '£' is for our currency, but for no where else in the world, so I suppose it is quite obscure. I think that you should make a euro sign, because more people use it, and it's very easy to design.
Comment by Cohnisgone 13th April 2014
Note to self...
Narrow the h, u and y, as well. Switch-out the Roman numeral D and the Latin letter D. Add tiny Roman serif embellishments to match the others there.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 13th April 2014
Cohnisgone...
Yeah, I'll want to do the £ as you indicated, but I'll also do a euro sign as well. Thanks.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 13th April 2014
Hey there, Everyone!

@Meek... The nudge utility/tool is really helping me out big time. Not just with this font, but it seems I can improve everything I go back in and edit. ;) Thanks!

@Cohnisgone, I changed the £ and added a Euro (and Euro Currency sign). Are they looking better, now?

@Thalamic, I finally added large curve blocks so that I can hang on to the curve of the D. I used them to make it better and I'll be doing the O, Q, and other big curved characters with that same technique. So I think the uniformity you look for will come. But I don't know whether to change the B middle connection to look more like the P top connects in the middle, or not. Still mulling that one over.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 12th June 2014
My 2¢: I'll say, that aside from a few characters, that this font is really good. Those certain characters being designed a certain way—you know, designers preference. Personally, I like the curve on the B, if that helps?
Comment by TCWhite 12th June 2014
Thanks, TCWhite.

I like the curve of the b where it joins in the middle, too. It should look better and more uniform as I address the other large curves. Slowly but surely, it's coming around, I think. ;)
Comment by SymbioticDesign 12th June 2014
You admired MY works! WOW, my fonts are practically nothing compared to the great p2pnut. I generally don't do much large-scale, I prefer experimenting with small scale. I still am often "lost" when I clone a very cool and complicated font. Some suggestions for this font:

@ and # need to be bigger
(){} look like they are from a serif font
ñ and ã the tilde is way too big.
s seems to be very thin.
I'm really no real expert when it comes to these types of fonts, i'm just stating some things i noticed about the font that might look strange in text. I much prefer fonts that are not really like this, more display/hand/blackletter, but this is quite good. It must have taken a lot of work. Deserves a 11/10!
Comment by Noah (winty5) 13th June 2014
Wow, Thanks, winty!

I'll have to address those issues. But I have to work tonight and tomorrow morning. I might not get to it for a bit because of work and chores, but those are great observations that I will have to address.

And your works are phenomenal. Maybe I was seeing something you cloned and toyed with when I started this, but I started it a long time ago. LOL Nevertheless, I have been impressed with your fonys as well as p2pnut, will.i.am, and LexKominek, as well as others.

Now that we have nudge, I am having lots more fun with the smaller fonts, though. But I want to get this one finished-up before too long (and it will take a while, I want to add some dingbats, as well).

Thanks again!
Comment by SymbioticDesign 13th June 2014
I've been looking at it now, winty...

I made the @ sign the same size as the little o, but it needs to be as big as a capital? Is that the same for the © & # (looks like it)? I'll have to redo those, along with the tilde (to fit over the n & a).

I didn't realize there was a difference between a serif and sans (){}... good catch.

I'm just up because I can't sleep right now, but I will be working on those things later today.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 16th June 2014
LOL, I can't sleep right now either, my house just flooded and my dad needs to call a plumber.

Comment by Noah (winty5) 16th June 2014
And yes all those characters need to be about the same size as a capital letter. Also o with tilde you will need to fix along with a and n
Comment by Noah (winty5) 16th June 2014
Also I really dislike the Q. It would be better with a mini-tilde below it.
Comment by Noah (winty5) 16th June 2014
Heh, heh... Hi winty. Thanks for your help with this.

I think I addressed some of those characters early this morning before seeing your comments just now.

This morning I made a new, shorter tilde, though it does rise a bit. I used that on the lower and uppercase case characters with a tilde accent.

I just now used the © to make a bullseye before deleting it. ;) I made the new © about the same as a capital letter.

I really liked the @, so I refined it and moved it up into an unused subscript character (repositioned as a subscript) and used the a inside for the subscript feminine a ordinal. Now I'll make the regular @.

I guess the Q has been bugging me as well, Using the tilde is an interesting idea.

I also added some other characters this morning.

OK... back to the @! :D
Comment by SymbioticDesign 16th June 2014
I think the B has to be a bit wider now, too.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 16th June 2014
I would suggest studying other fonts. The ©, if you'll notice in this text, is the same size as the capitals, as is the @ and #. And yes, B should be at least the width of A. As for Q: depends on the designer. I love the Q with the tilde-esque tail, like in Electra, Baskerville, Melior, etc.
Comment by TCWhite 16th June 2014
I have to admit that I have problems with some these concepts, though. Primarily, because some of this should be left up to interpretation. Plus, that's not how I print stuff.

I think that in drafting there is a whole different set of rules on forming characters, as well (or at least what I remember from it).

For instance, I definitely see that the {}()&~ characters could be expected to be from a serif. But that is one of my problems with non-serif fonts. In drafting I used simple techniques to create prettier ()& while handwriting sans-serif print and my instructor loved the results. I even used special paper so that I could make my characters darker (because otherwise overworking the letters would tear the paper).

Oh well, had to stop work on the @ sign while watching the World Cup with my son. America pulled off game 1, cool! ;) Now, back @ it!
Comment by SymbioticDesign Today, 12:14 AM
I'm still working on the @, it still needs a bit of attention. But I fattened up the s this morning.
Comment by SymbioticDesign Today, 9:55 AM
Still working on it. The &, M, P and R are in the middle of their transformations. I have been working on it, but the update almost never appears in the live community page.
Comment by SymbioticDesign 14th July 2014

Try a pixelated version of this, it will work better in flash

Comment by Bryndan Meyerholt (brynda1231) Thu, 12th January

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